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The retrial between Apple and Samsung is currently ongoing, to find out once and for all how much Samsung owes Apple. As a result, executives from both companies have taken the stand to present arguments. Most recently Apple’s head of marketing Phil Schiller said that Apple’s iPhone was such a huge risk for Apple that he felt Apple basically bet its future on the device. Now, Schiller is remarking on why Samsung’s patent infringement has been so frustrating for the company.

“It weakens the view that the world has for Apple,” Schiller said, according to The Wall Street Journal. Schiller argues that Samsung basically copied Apple’s iPhone and then, ultimately, consumers questioned “[Apple’s innovation and design skills in a way that people never used to.” Samsung’s Galaxy devices have been hugely successful, and are among the phones accused of infringing Apple’s patents. Schiller’s argument suggests that Samsung wouldn’t have created the devices had the iPhone never existed. It’s a similar claim to Apple’s original “copycat” accusations toward Samsung.

Meanwhile, Samsung’s lawyers see things differently, and questioned Schiller on how it might be possible for Apple to own patents on a phone or tablet that is “beautiful” and “sexy.” Samsung’s legal team argues that Apple doesn’t have the right to say whether or not another product can or cannot be beautiful, and ultimately has no right to “preclude the design of this hardware.” Schiller responded saying that a Galaxy Tab, held up in question, “looks like an iPad.”

Obviously both teams are going to continue to go back and forth. Samsung will try to win a smaller settlement while Apple is fighting for as much cash out of Samsung as it can get.